Hey there! Welcome to the Marketer Of The Month blog!
We recently interviewed Freelancer of the Month ‘Joe Dejene’ for our monthly podcast -‘Marketer of the Month’! We had some amazing insightful conversations with Joe and here’s what we discussed about –
1. Why focusing on increasing LTV is easier and more scalable than decreasing CAC
2. Key marketing funnel metrics you should measure
3. Putting yourself in your clients’ position
4. Why paid traffic is great for quick wins
5. Achieving long-term success with organic content marketing
6. Optimizing your marketing strategy for purchases rather than leads
About our host:
Dr. Saksham Sharda is the Chief Information Officer at Outgrow.co He specializes in data collection, analysis, filtering, and transfer by the means of widgets and applets. Interactive, cultural, and trending widgets designed by him have been featured on TrendHunter, Alibaba, ProductHunt, New York Marketing Association, FactoryBerlin, Digimarcon Silicon Valley, and at The European Affiliate Summit.
About our guest:
Performance Marketer – Joe Dejene is a former Engineer and Firefighter. After observing that the majority of marketing agencies do not treat their clients as true partners, he founded Duckweed Media in 2019. He has assisted numerous brands expand and achieve profitability – most recently an eCom brand in the health space, from $75,800 MRR to $158,900 MRR while maintaining a profitable CAC. Learn more about structuring email campaigns, paid traffic, and advertising in this latest edition of Freelancer of the Month.
Optimizing Your Marketing Strategy With the Right Metrics
Table of Contents
Saksham Sharda: Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Outgrow’s Marketer of the Month. I’m your host, Dr. Saksham Sharda. I’m the creative director at outgrow.co And for this month, we have a special series of freelancer of the month for which we are going to interview Joe Dejene, who is a paid traffic growth consultant. Thanks for joining us, Joe.
Joe Dejene: Thanks for having me.
Don’t have time to read? No problem, just watch the Podcast!
Or you can just listen to it on Spotify
The Rapid Fire Round!
Saksham Sharda: So, Joe, we are going to start with a rapid-fire round just to break the ice. You get three passes in case you don’t want to answer a question. You can just say pass, but try to keep your answers to one word or one sentence only. Okay?
Joe Dejene: All right. Let’s do it. It’s Monday morning. Let’s get it going.
Saksham Sharda: What is the weirdest thing you’ve ever eaten?
Joe Dejene: The weirdest thing I’ve ever eaten? I was in the Brazilian Amazon, and there they look like these big nuts, and you can chop them with the machete. And when you open it up, there’s a larva inside and you can eat the larva and it explodes in your mouth. And for whatever reason, it tastes just like coconut, like the inside that’s chicken intestines. Weird, funky.
Saksham Sharda: Describe yourself in five words.
Joe Dejene: Adventurous, novelty, seeking, ambitious, reliable.
Saksham Sharda: What was the most recent thing that made you cry?
Joe Dejene: The animated movie, ‘Your Name’, which is probably targeted toward teenage girls. This is getting personal way faster than I thought it would.
Saksham Sharda: What are the books, movies, or games that never get old and always make you feel better when you get down, you can name one.
Joe Dejene: So many. Let’s say Chrono Trigger, a super Nintendo game. I’m dating myself here a little bit.
Saksham Sharda: How good are you at jiu jitsu? Out of a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most good
Joe Dejene: Two and a half. I’ve been doing it for a year and a half.
Saksham Sharda: Okay. What is the most trivial thing about which you have a strong opinion?
Joe Dejene: The most trivial thing that I have a strong opinion about. Wow. That’s a hard one to do rapid fire.
Joe Dejene: Well, I mean, I’ve been intentionally trying not to, but I would say any type of late fear or any small fine, any like whenever there’s just some small fine attached to anything. It always gets under my skin. Especially when companies are like that will be an extra this much. When you’ve agreed to pay so much, it’ll be $500, but there’s a two, $2 50-cent handler.
Saksham Sharda: Okay. If you could be any mythical creature, what would you be?
Joe Dejene: I’m a Chimera for sure.
Saksham Sharda: Why?
Joe Dejene: Because I can come at it from different angles. Take different forms. You see me from one side? I look like a lion from the other side, like, don’t wanna say a snake.
Saksham Sharda: Would your 12-year-old self think you were cool?
Joe Dejene: No.
Saksham Sharda: Would you ever skydive?
Joe Dejene: I have gone skydiving. However, you say that it’s been a long time though. And I would, again, strangely it’s been 13 years and I haven’t done it.
Saksham Sharda: Have you ever walked out of a movie theater mid-show?
Joe Dejene: Many times. Look at Hollywood.
Saksham Sharda: Name one of the movies you’ve moved out.
Joe Dejene: The latest James Bond movie. It was absolutely terrible. They should just not even call it 007 anymore. I mean, Hollywood’s pretty much done.
Saksham Sharda: Yeah. And the last rapid question, what’s the best compliment you’ve ever received?
Joe Dejene: Some of the clients I’ve worked with told me that we really changed the trajectory of their business. They said we were much less optimistic about the future when we first engaged with you compared to where we’re at now. And that’s happened a couple of times, and those compliments really stand out to me.
Saksham Sharda: Wait, I guess you didn’t answer the rapid fire with one word or one sentence, but we are gonna forgive that.
The Big Questions!
Saksham Sharda: Let’s go into the longer questions. Is increasing LTV easier and more scalable than focusing on decreasing customer acquisition costs?
Joe Dejene: Let me give you the consultant’s perfect answer. It depends on most of the time. I mean, look if I’m engaging a brand, if they don’t have a customer win backflow, for example, then you could literally write two emails that will increase LTV. But I would say most of the time, probably six or seven out of 10 times, it’s easier to bring down customer acquisition costs. That’s what we really focus on. We do help clients with LTV, but where our specialty really is lowering CAC. And so that’s what we do. And I believe that to be the leverage point for the majority of people selling physical and digital products through search and through social media. So yes, with some caveats
Saksham Sharda: And so then to relate this to one of your clients, What did it take to scale Breathesans from $75,800 MRR to $158,900 MRR while maintaining a profitable CAC in a highly competitive business like the ecom health industry?
Joe Dejene: Yeah. Great. All right. Great notes. So a few things went into that and it actually was initially minimizing, when we engaged with them, they had previously been working with some large agencies that I won’t name, but there’s a dirty secret of anyone who’s working with a really large agency, is that usually, you get a US-based or like US-UK developed world based salesperson and maybe account manager. And, what I hear a lot from clients is like the onboarding, the sales process, the onboarding process is really great. It’s detailed, but, a normal marketing agency, you have three layers. You have the people actually doing the work, you have the middle managers, and then you have the C level, you know, the founder and the C level people, depending on the size, maybe just a founder at C level and directors under him.
And that is gonna run usually like a 25 to 40% margin. Some agencies do have larger margins, but they’re usually very specialized. And so the dirty secret is, well, if you’re a relatively small margin, how do you know, operate like that? How do you operate on a small margin? And one of the ways that a lot of large agencies do that is by hiring talent in developing countries, specifically the people who have their hands on the controls of their client’s ad accounts, usually, are often being hired from like Pakistan, India, sometimes Philippines. And so whenever I’m engaging an account doing an audit for a client, usually when I’m engaging someone, I’ll say, let me look and see what you’re doing. What I see frequently is just a lot like a very shotgun approach, like taking a handful of spaghetti and throwing it against the wall and seeing what sticks.
Joe Dejene: And there’s some merit to that approach. But usually there’s not much rhyme or reason, or like a clear process because they don’t have a media buyer necessarily with the most experience who’s actually making the changes in the account. They have someone who looks at the account maybe once a week, maybe twice a month, who has the experience and that person is directing a VA to do the actual work. So tying that back to your question, whenever I’m engaging someone who has worked with a large agency previously, I would say nearly every time, there are a lot of audiences that have been tested at some time, a lot of creatives and ad copy that have been tested at some time. Often the creatives are of good quality, or at least, you know, they look professional there on brand, but the way that the ad account is structured is I would say in my opinion, a mess like 90% of the time, they’re not doing single variable testing.
Joe Dejene: They’re not isolating one variable to test; they’re not optimizing for the best ad creatives. They’re not trying to be like the best ad text with the best ad creative with the best audience. And so what I, in the case of Breathesans, what we did was we just boiled down to, like, what are your absolute best assets? So we found, on an audience that has about a 20% lower CPM, cost per impression than nearly all the rest that we tested. So if you’re a 20% lower, cost per impression and everything else is equal, which it was because we checked their final metrics, then essentially by using just that one audience, assuming that it’s big enough and we use large interest-based audiences, if not broad in Facebook, then you can just lower your CAC by 20% by using that one audience, given that it’s big enough to support a thousand dollars plus per day, finding hose is actually the easy part of our process.
So I don’t mind giving that away. So boiling down to one audience, what is the best audience that we can run all of our ads to or optimize our real cost per click and cost per impression, but at the end of the funnel, that ends up being your CAC. And then we just continued that for other assets. So we found the one creative that works the absolute best, one piece of ad copy that works the absolute best, did some testing and single variable testing, because we had a bunch of assets, a bunch of creatives, a bunch of ad copy, but they weren’t organized in any way. The agency, I guess doesn’t have a clear like phase 1, 2, 3, or like we use four phases, in media buying, but you need at least three to test.
Joe Dejene: So we went through, we found what had worked best for them in terms of cost per click and boiled down to that. And we were able to get really good results right away. This was in the health space. So we did ride the Omnicron wave early this year. Like we had ridiculously good think our MUR overall was between a six and a seven, early on this year. And the Omicron wave, you know, definitely helped that. So just simplify is the answer for my long-winded explanation. And then, to go beyond that, simplifying can take a brand usually to, creative testing, a little bit of audience testing, and some ad copy testing, with a heavy focus on creative testing. Oh man. And that’s a whole nother thing.
We could talk about how we do creative testing. It’s very detailed. I don’t see many agencies testing creatives the way that we do. But, identifying the winners, simplifying the ad account and then optimizing those creatives that do work really well with the audience that works really well. I’ll do low-cost traffic testing to find like, okay, so this ad is written from the angle of, you know, in this case air purifiers, we’re gonna say this ad is written from the angle of removing dust from your home. So how can we look at other angles to what are the other angles that people want? Well, people with respiratory conditions like asthma and allergies, they want to be breathing clean air, people with pets, maybe there’s allergies, maybe they just don’t wanna have to clean up pet hair every other day.
Joe Dejene: They’re gonna want cleaner air from people who live in areas that are affected by wildfires, especially this time of year, because it’s summer, we’re recording this in late June. So like summer’s beginning, affected by wildfire. They don’t wanna be breathing in smoke for you know, several months a year. So we find the angles and we do that through reading reviews, ads, and just literally quantifying what are people really happy about, and what are people telling us they’re happy about with their purchase and then working those angels into the ads. So again, if our one best ad is around dusting, we’re gonna write, we’re gonna find like, okay, so, other angles like asthma allergies, not having to clean up as much after your pets, and soke, we’re gonna write ads that are identical, almost identical to the dusting ad, but with a single variable of changing that angle.
So instead of saying tired of dusting, we’re gonna say get the animal out of your air. One of our, taglines is a social cat animal out of the air.
Saksham Sharda: Get your animal out of the air?
Joe Dejene: Yeah. So, you know, your dog or cat is in the air and get it out. Anything related to respiratory conditions. Now, we don’t wanna make claims about health because you know, this product makes people, it improves air, but we, we’re not gonna say cure your allergies because that’s definitely not okay by, you know, pretty much GDPR standards or even Facebook’s rules. So a testimonial of someone saying that their allergies were relieved, that their asthma was relieved within a week of using the product is the angle that we’ll use in this ad. So, that’s our process.
Now you asked me a question and I just expanded on it for what maybe like five, 10 minutes there. And, I would say that’s what it takes to be competitive and really scale a business, eCommerce or digital product through social media, because cheap traffic is gone and you really need to know your customer. You really need to understand why they like your product, what they like about it, and put that front and center and test different angles, test various creatives, optimize your, your best creatives that you’ve tested and always be testing. I recommend that usually, 20% of your budget is good for creative testing. Probably pool my accounts. It probably ranges from like 15 to 40 across all the accounts we managed. And it changes because we’ll run a test for a few days and turn it off.
Joe Dejene: But you always need to be testing ballpark 20% of your budget in ad copy in creative testing, testing new angles, finding what people like about your product, researching, gathering customer feedback and using that to sell your product. Because, you know, we used to get really cheap clicks, 20 cents, 30 cent clicks, 50 cent clicks on Facebook, and that’s gone, you know, CPMs used to be under $10 all the time that’s gone. So I find that when brands want to grow, it really takes a deeper understanding of who your customer is, what they like about you. And then just finding what your mass market angle is, or angles is probably more than one. And then what creative demands attention, you know, we use custom metrics to literally see what makes people stop and look for three seconds. How do we capture people’s attention first?
And then how do we make them convert beyond that? So very granular, very leaning heavily into creativity. I came into the business as an analytical marketer, and really worked on my creator skills and hired and partnered with creatives to help our service, in the creative side. But I still use the analytical side to say, like, you know, this three second animation stops twice as many people as this other three second animation at the beginning of our video ads. So you asked me what kind Gensaw gave you a big answer.
Saksham Sharda: That’s all right. I wanted to expand on that. And what kind of relationship do you tend to build with your clients? Coz we have it on good authority that you believe that most marketing firms do not regard their clients as actual partners.
Joe Dejene: Yeah. And I should avoid the C word because it’s a client that sounds like someone who’s emailing me with a question that you don’t wanna take the time to answer. So when I’m approaching it and what I tell my team, media buyers and, and creatives is how would you manage this account? How would you write this ad if this was your business? This is why brands come up and they may get sold to a holding company. And then some 17 year old drop shipping kid makes a slightly different product, but is a better marketer and puts that company that was sold to a holding company out of business because they’re coming up. The simple framework is how would I treat this if I own the business. If I was responsible for this $1,500 per day, we’re spending on this ad account, how would I spend that?
Joe Dejene: If this was my business, would I be increasing the spend? Would I be decreasing the spend? Because there’s time to do each. And that’s the one framework that I would recommend the simplest framework. If I owned 100% of this business, how would I treat it? How quickly would I respond to my suppliers, my other service providers, how would I do in terms of ad spend? How would I structure the ad account? That’s the one thing, and I kind of talked about what my experience is with, talking to partners who have previously engaged with larger agencies before. And so, that’s what I see. I previously worked at large agencies and I will say the agencies I worked at, I thought they did a very good job of really understanding client’s needs.
I worked at a couple agencies that I think did a very good job of understanding, but I don’t think they were the norm. So I’m fortunate to have worked where I did, but I think those are the exception to the rule and, and most large agencies are, they’ll put up a good presentation. Their proposal looks a lot better than mine, because we’re a small boutique team, but the quality of work, I mean, I’ve seen it over and over again. In fact, I woke up to a message today from a prospect in Australia, so they’re ahead. And they said, Hey, we wanna get started right away. So, they had been working with a large agency, so I just see this, yeah, see time and time again. It’s you know, large agencies, they’re looking at it. This client is 1% of our revenue, half a percent of our revenue. We’re gonna give half percent of our resources to it.
Saksham Sharda: And has there ever been a client relationship where you have had to put out the fire that is haptic in that organization, and we are asking this question because apparently you used to be a former firefighter? So, I’m going to organizational fire, which also tells us about the literal last fire you put out as a firefighter.
Joe Dejene: The literal last fire I put out.
That was because I was an industrial firefighter. I studied environmental sciences and got a job as an environmental engineer. I worked in a big plastic factory, the largest, the largest polypropylene factory in the world, actually in Houston, Texas. And fortunately we did not have any fires on site, but we went to the training ground. So the last literal fire I put out, we were at the training facility at Texas A and M. It’s like one of the best in the US, if not the entire world, to train fire fighting. And this was industrial fire fighting so different from, not so much structure fires or like going into buildings. That’s a whole nother level of danger. We did do some of that, but mostly like, Hey, we have a chemical plant that has a, you know, a highly flammable chemical and there was a leak and the leak ignited.
Joe Dejene: So now it’s spouting out fire. How do we contain that fire and then plug the valve, close the valve. It was scenarios like that we were doing some of them complex. So those are usually teams of like 10 to 15 people that go about, putting those out. It was at the Texas A and M training facility in terms of actual firefighting and, man, this is younger, Joe. It must have been close to 10 years ago, eight or nine years ago. And then as far as you asked me about putting out organizational fires.
Saksham Sharda: Yes.
Joe Dejene: So, it’s actually a small thing. It’s just, you know, maybe we’ve made a small mistake. We’re running several different products, and there’s an error in the ad copy. You know, maybe I wrote it and, you know, it can literally be something as small as a typo or something that a client wants. Like, Hey, change the messaging a little bit. I wouldn’t say any organizational, there’s nothing organizational, especially with the brands that we work with. There, I’m not suggesting any organizational changes to them. That would be a big suggestion.
Saksham Sharda: The way you described it earlier, the way that a lot of these accounts were working with just throwing spaghetti on the wall, seems like they need to change something or change something organizationally, you know?
Joe Dejene: Well, in that case, I’m just offering our services, our paid traffic services, and that case. So, okay. So I wouldn’t consider putting out a fire as restructuring their paid traffic accounts. That’s not putting out a fire is something that you have to jump on and change right away. Like if there was a fire here in my place, I would have to say, give me a minute. I need to put this fire out. But changing the structure of a paid traffic account, usually looking at like one week, maybe two weeks, maybe 10 days to do it, could be done faster, but that’s like a, you wanna make sure you get it right. That’s not something that we rush. We make sure we have a long onboarding process when we bring new partners on new brands.
So we’re like we take our time and get a really good understanding. And like I said, if it’s reading customer reviews, if it’s going over the features that people care about, we’re always understanding that before we’re writing new ads. So that, I would say that’s not putting out fires, but putting out fires is, you know, I have a small team here. We’ve kept a boutique, ten of four, so that I’m personally making multiple touches on all of our client accounts, each week. And, and so that’s the way we’re, and because of that putting out fires, we definitely try to minimize, but yeah, sometimes, you know, we publish an ad, maybe it’s in the wrong place. Maybe we will publish a square ad. That’s showing up in stories that can happen. Sometimes it’s literally just one click and that’s something that we address right away. So as far as putting out fires, but then as far as, like taking over new accounts, that’s a longer process. So it’s not as quick as putting out a five
Saksham Sharda: And speaking of the rising costs of advertising that you were talking about. So what are your opinions on organic content marketing, being cautious and studying methods for long-term success? And is this something your team also works on or helps with?
Joe Dejene: So my team specifically, do we have an agency partner that handles it is necessary? Absolutely organic growth. And just like how, you know, I’m in a few masterminds that meet weekly and have slack channels where we discuss, how do we get customer acquisition as low as possible? That’s why we specialize in acquiring customers through paid traffic. How do we get that cost as low as possible? What are the channels? What are the methods to do that? And I have an agency partner who is the same with organic social. I think it’s definitely necessary. One hand washes the other as well, because obviously paid traffic is just like putting a magnifying glass or maybe like turning a fire hydrogen on to what’s happening in your business without the foundations of, you know, like some organic following, some engagement on your organic accounts.
Joe Dejene: Paid traffic is certainly not going to have an effect if there isn’t that foundation, but it is also a long-term growth strategy to grow. For example, this is true for us if we’re engaging a brand or for any other paid traffic agency, if we’re engaging a brand that has say maybe 5,000 Instagram followers and say they’re fashion, apparel accessories is a niche where, we’ve had success and we’re managing some accounts. If they have 10,005, 10,000 Instagram followers, okay, that’s something we can work with and, and we can, get some, you know, lower our cap by engaging those followers without using that as one of our, our warm audiences. But if we’re engaging a brand that has a million, million and a half Instagram followers, we can be able to, to put more spend into that warm traffic, get a lot more conversions quickly.
We’re probably gonna be spending a lot more, that’s most likely just a more mature brand. But, that’s someone who’s invested in growing their organic. So organic and paid definitely is one hand washing the other. They work well. And so we’ve partnered with an agency called Yellow Rock agency. They do really great organic content. So we work on a few brands together with them. So I definitely think it’s very important. And you need someone who really understands that. Like for us, we need to understand how to get CAC lower. So there’s a creative aspect to that. And there’s an analytical aspect to that. And, with organic, I think it leans even more creative. The creatives are very important and pay, but I think with organic, you really need to understand creativity and, organic is a, it’s a marathon.
Joe Dejene: So I know our part produces tons and tons of images, post stories,for their accounts. So it’s definitely important to just be like always producing content where with paid, you may get lucky and it, this does vary by channel, but say like Google, I wouldn’t even say get lucky. You’re not you’re, usually not needing to, for like Google display network ads or performance max, which is obviously killing it for, for anyone listening, who’s involved, Google performance max is a very good way to acquire customers at a low cost. It just has a relatively low ceiling because, you’re limited by search volume and, display network will work, but in your Google display network, which is part of performance, max, you know, you’re, you’re not needing to change out creatives too frequently. As with organic, you know, you need to have new creatives ready to go daily, or at least several per week. So, the demand for creativity is really high, with tha. So, you know, you need like that creative process really ironed out on the organic side
Saksham Sharda: And, whether it be, you know, paid or organic, what are your opinions on optimizing marketing strategy for purchases rather than leads?
Joe Dejene: So I would say, choose one channel and one acquisition method, it can be paid early on, but you’re gonna wanna target warmer traffic. So good like Google performance, max is anyone who’s, wanting to who’s early has launched a brand recently. And you’re wanting to get new customers through paid Google performance maxes, most likely where you’re going to get that because it’s warmer traffic. Whereas social is a pool you’re, getting people’s attention. You have a huge market, but you need to get your market’s attention. Even with a lower cost platform like TikTok, I would expect that any brand is gonna need to spend 500 to a thousand dollars just to season their pixel with their, the TikTok pixel with higher funnel events above purchase. So, you now, if anyone’s done this and they think I’m wrong, good on you, but for the majority of brands, you’re gonna need to spend that 500 to a thousand, just season your pixel with TikTok ads, and then you’re gonna need to do massive creative testing and, and swp out creative very frequently.
Joe Dejene: And it’s gonna have to, everything is kind of based on trends because that’s how people are engaging with content on that platform. Whereas Google performance, max, you know, you literally have like a, a square rectangular images of your logo and maybe one or two of your products of your best selling products and run those,on, on Google display network and just some simple ad text to, power acquisition costs through, through Google ads. I got a little bit off topic there, going back to your question…
Saksham Sharda: You really are pitching Google performance max.
Joe Dejene: Yeah. It’s something that we’ve done more of and the majority of our ad spend is still on Facebook. But yeah, PMax is a good way to get started shopping as well, but shopping will be going away. I believe later this year,all shopping, i’ll be going away later towards the end of this year. But, sorry, your original question was how to, well?
Saksham Sharda: Whether it was coz we are talking about paid versus organic or paid and organic. So my question was, what are your opinions on optimizing marketing strategy for purchases rather than leads, when it comes to both paid and organic?
Joe Dejene: Find one paid channel that works and its majority brands will be PMAX and then get your systems in place for organic growth to grow steadily. That would be it any, any brand who’s able to get traction on Facebook, Instagram ads early on though, is gonna be able to grow very quickly. So it’s not the easiest place to acquire customers profitably, but if a brand early on is able to do it, say Google first and then begin the organic processes. And email is extremely important. Having a few email flows. I’ll just give you the answers. It’s a welcome series in card abandon. That’s going to count for the majority. It’s not worth designing like a dozen different email flows, design those two, optimize them, test variations of them and, and optimize three, four emails minim each.
Joe Dejene: And just find what works in those two flows. That’s very big, actually, that should be even before paid traffic,and then bring Google traffic because that’s lower funnel, build up content through organic and then go into Facebook. I would say that would be like the blueprint. And now I’m sure some brands have not done those in different order or have started somewhere else. And brands have definitely started launching with TikTok. You could have a grown organic following, pretty largely if you understand the platform, because it’s more heavily organic, possibly even Twitter. Although Twitter DTC is not huge. I do think it’s growing quite a bit. But if you’re to grow your accounts and you don’t have a big organic following, that’s the order that I would say most brands are gonna want to follow. In, growing is getting email in place. Google paid traffic, organic, your organic process is in place to steadily grow your organic accounts and then Facebook, Instagram paid traffic.
Saksham Sharda: Well last question. What would you be doing if not this in your life right now?
Joe Dejene: What would I be doing if not this? Oh gosh. I definitely have always enjoyed it. I started when I literally started my career, I worked at a large oil company and I realized very soon, like working for corporations is not where I wanna be. So I would definitely be working with small to medium size businesses. And so if not paid traffic, I would be wanting to provide a service. I would want to be providing something that I think is very valuable to small and medium-sized businesses, whether it helps in the acquisition space. And I would say finance because finance is a very large part of the acquisition, funny coming from an applied science major, but I would say, finance is likely in acquisitions and definitely for small and medium businesses.
Saksham Sharda: Okay. Well, thanks everyone for joining us for the special series of freelancer of the month. That was Joe dejene, who is a paid traffic crew consultant. Thanks for joining us, Joe.
Saksham Sharda: Check out his Upwork profile for more details and we’ll see you once again next month with another freelancer,
Joe Dejene: Not just my upwork, check it out on Twitter at Joe Dejene. I haven’t been on Twitter that long, but I am building content by the time this comes out more than I have now. Check out duckweed media on Instagram, a little bit of content there. If you wanna just see what we do and the problems we solve for our clients, and how we help brands grow, Duckweed will give you a great idea. Get in contact with us if you’re looking to grow your brand.