EPISODE 215: Marketer of the Month Podcast with Bianca Zwart

Hey there! Welcome to the Marketer Of The Month blog!

We recently interviewed Bianca Zwart for our monthly podcast – ‘Marketer of the Month’! We had some amazing insightful conversations with Bianca and here’s what we discussed about –

1. Strategies employed to scale internationally and focus on localizing for diverse cultures and regulations.

2. Approach to achieving profitability by aligning commercial success with user happiness.

3. Using AI for anti-money laundering and challenging outdated regulations.

4. Automating manual processes to focus human expertise on adding value, especially in search marketing.

5. Maintaining simplicity in products and communication to stand out in a complex financial market.

6. Blending creative approaches with a can-do attitude in a fast-paced environment.

About our host:

Dr. Saksham Sharda is the Chief Information Officer at Outgrow.co. He specializes in data collection, analysis, filtering, and transfer by means of widgets and applets. Interactive, cultural, and trending widgets designed by him have been featured on TrendHunter, Alibaba, ProductHunt, New York Marketing Association, FactoryBerlin, Digimarcon Silicon Valley, and at The European Affiliate Summit.

About our guest:

Bianca Zwart is the Chief of Staff to the CEO at bunq in Amsterdam, where she has been since August 2022. She has a strong background in communications and public relations, having founded Black & White Communications and I/RISE. She previously served as Head of PR & Communications and Team Lead of User Operations at bunq.

User-Centric Marketing: Bunq’s Chief of Staff Bianca Zwart on How to Build Across Diverse Markets

The Intro!

Saksham Sharda: Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Outgrow’s Marketer of the Month. I’m your host, Dr. Saksham Sharda, and I’m the creative director at Outgrow. co. And for this month we are going to interview Bianca Zwart, who is the Chief of Staff to the CEO at bunq.

Bianca Zwart: Great to be here. Thank you.

Don’t have time to read? No problem, just watch the Podcast!

Challenge yourself with this trivia about the exciting topics Bianca Zwart covered in the podcast.

Launch Interactive Quiz

Or you can just listen to it on Spotify!

The Rapid Fire Round!

Saksham Sharda: At what age do you want to retire?

Bianca Zwart: Never.

Saksham Sharda: How long does it take you to get ready in the mornings?

Bianca Zwart: 30 minutes, but I can do it 10.

Saksham Sharda: Most embarrassing moment of your life.

Bianca Zwart: Yet to experience.

Saksham Sharda: Favorite color? 

Bianca Zwart: Blue. 

Saksham Sharda: What time of day are you most inspired?

Bianca Zwart: During the night, unfortunately.

Saksham Sharda: How many hours of sleep can you survive on?

Bianca Zwart: Very few. Fortunately,

Saksham Sharda: Fill in the blank. An upcoming marketing trend is _____.

Bianca Zwart: AI with a human touch.

Saksham Sharda: The city in which the best kiss of your life happened.

Bianca Zwart: Rome.

Saksham Sharda: Pick one. Mark. Zuckerberg or Elon Musk.

Bianca Zwart: Musk.

Saksham Sharda: The biggest mistake of your career?

Bianca Zwart: Seeing mistakes as mistakes rather than simply feedback.

Saksham Sharda: How do you relax?

Bianca Zwart: Kickboxing.

Saksham Sharda: How many cups of coffee do you drink per day?

Bianca Zwart: Too many.

Saksham Sharda: A habit of yours that you hate?

Bianca Zwart: Always chasing adrenaline.

Saksham Sharda: The most valuable skill you’ve learned in life.

Bianca Zwart: Resilience.

Saksham Sharda: Your favorite Netflix show.

Bianca Zwart: Drives to survive.

Saksham Sharda: One word. Description of your leadership title

Bianca Zwart: Point.

Saksham Sharda: Top priority in your daily schedule.

Bianca Zwart: Sports.

Saksham Sharda: Ideal vacation spot for relaxation.

Bianca Zwart: Italy.

Saksham Sharda: Key factor for maintaining a work-life balance.

Bianca Zwart: Sports .

Saksham Sharda: Memorable career milestone.

Bianca Zwart: When I became chief of staff at Bunq.

The Big Questions!

Saksham Sharda: So now let’s go on to the long-form questions. You can answer as much time and ease as you want.

Bianca Zwart: Like. Well, buckle up.

Saksham Sharda: Alright, the first one is, what strategies has bunq employed to scale internationally and build a truly global company?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah. Well, I think that’s a great question because, so at Bunq, we built the first user-centric bank. So everything we do starts with our user, right? And if you look at scaling, we go wherever our users go. Our users are people who live an international lifestyle, so they go all across the globe. So what makes us good at scaling is that we focus, so our first focus has been Europe, but that actually brings me to another point Europe, there’s no such thing as one Europe, right, If you, Europe, there’s all these different countries that have a different culture different payment systems, different regulations. So we truly try to localize that so basically we have a global approach, but we localize wherever we go. So what we do when we go into the market, we have a two-faced approach. First, yeah, we launch on a small scale, gather feedback, and see what we can do to truly make our products in line with what people need locally. And then we go in delays.

Saksham Sharda: How do you ensure that bunq’s unique culture and values are maintained as you expand globally?

Bianca Zwart: Yes, that’s a challenging one. I must say we’re growing really fast and we have a very typical company culture. Our DNA is what got us here, and I also think it’s what’s gonna make us successful moving forward. Now we’re not only in Amsterdam anymore, but we also have offices all across the world and we’re growing at rapid speed. So what is important is that we make sure that its culture is not something that lives inside our heads. It needs to be something that comes back in all the processes that we have, everything that we have set up. So one of our focus areas is that our user is at the core of everything we do, right, there are a couple of examples that we use to make sure that that’s always maintained. One of them is that we have a template for any business case, any proposal, and it always starts with one question, what’s in it for a user? And if you cannot answer that, we’re not doing it.

Saksham Sharda: And so speaking of how your DNA got you here, can you discuss the bunq’s journey to profitability as a neo-bank?

Bianca Zwart: Yes, of course. It is actually what sets us apart from other challenges in the market, right, So when we launched in 2015, we didn’t only want to bring diversity of people to the sector. Not only diversity of products but also diversity of business models. If you look at the business models of traditional banks, it’s by no means rocket science that you are not at the center of their decision-making if the business model is focused on making the best margin on your money. So we had a very simple conviction. We thought if we build a product that people love to use, they’re willing to pay for it. If they’re willing to pay for it, then our commercial success is in direct alignment with the happiness of our users. And then we have no choice but to be user-centric in whatever we do. So over the last years, we decided to do things differently. We remained independent. We’ve been bootstrapped by our founder for nearly 10 years to really focus on finding our product market fit. What’s this product that will make people happy? How can we put all our love and energy into that and build a profitable company? Profit was our first goal rather than just growth. And I’m very happy that we got to that point. We were the first EU neobank to report a full year of profitability last year, and we’re very much, very well on, well on our way to doing exactly the same this year.

Saksham Sharda: How do you balance the drive for being profitable on the one hand with the need to invest money in being more innovative or having a better user experience?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah, I think the balance is in the fact that our systems are very effective. So we have it set up. We work in such an efficient way that we can maintain profitable growth. Yeah, we can keep our profitability and actually reinvest that in growth. The goal is not to get the most profits. The goal is to be profitable and reinvest that in growing further.

Saksham Sharda: And so how does bunq identify and respond to these emerging user trends, particularly around location-independence and technology?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah, that’s an interesting one because I always think that I’m making a product for myself. I also live a very international lifestyle, with a lot of international friends and a partner who lives in Rome, hence the rapid-fire question. So we really look at our users once and for each. So we don’t necessarily look at what’s the trend out there. We go talk to them, we go find out what it is that they experience and we build our product around that. So you can feed it with anything. Not sure if you at home have used the Bunq app, but if you have, you can feel it in the experience.  So I travel a lot for work and for life. And I sometimes travel from Europe to us. I can easily switch between my US and Euro accounts. In fact, my app automatically detects it when I am in another country. So if I forget, I’ll still pay easily without any markup fees. It’s in, it’s, it’s in everything we do, you can just feel it. So it’s not necessarily responding to bigger trends, it’s really talking to our users and finding out what it is that they want.

Saksham Sharda: So let’s take a break from the serious questions too. Oh. What does your typical day of work look like? You wake up in the morning and then?

Bianca Zwart: Yes, I wake up in the morning and then, yeah, I think because I’m chief of staff if you’re not familiar with the role, with the role, it originally comes with some politics and it’s gaining more traction in the tech sector as well. You could basically see me as the co-pilot to our founder and CEO. We’re growing so fast, we’re scaling at a rapid speed. He can no longer be everywhere himself. So I make sure that together we can. So by default in these roles, you’re not looking for work that works, and comes your way, and it’s a matter of dealing with things that come your way. So either by delegating it to someone else, creating a new process, or deciding that this is a leading gap that we need to hire so it’s more reactive. So in that sense, there is never a typical day in my life.

Saksham Sharda: How much of this time is taken up by meetings?

Bianca Zwart: Not a lot because at Bunq we have actually a policy which is meetings can no longer be in 30 minutes. And by default two people only because we think that’s the most efficient way of getting things done.

Saksham Sharda: And what advice would you have for job seekers looking to get into the banking sector?

Bianca Zwart: Ooh, in the banking sector, I don’t know. Because I always consider myself to be working in the tech sector. I think with anything, look for something that makes you forget about space and time and not something that will look good on your CV.

Saksham Sharda: Going back to the serious questions. 

Bianca Zwart: Oh, God.

Saksham Sharda: You often mentioned that impossible is just a word for things that have not been done yet, can you share an example of how a bunq has turned a seemingly impossible idea into reality?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah, of course. It’s the fact that we exist, I think. So we were the first in 35 years to get a full European banking license. So basically what we’ve shown is that it’s possible to create a bank and it’s possible to show consumers that they can have a far greater experience elsewhere. It was a long and tedious process to get a banking license. So we decided in collaboration with the regulator to simplify that process. So after we got our license, you’ve seen many more challengers getting licenses too, and a lot a lot more quickly because we simplified it, which is great. So that’s just one of the many examples.

Saksham Sharda: And how do you inspire and cultivate this particular mindset within your team?

Bianca Zwart: That’s a good question. I think there are many ways of doing so. I think what sets Bunq apart is that we work with ownership. So we don’t make roles for the sake of creating roles. We really look at a problem that our user is facing and we create an ownership around it. So someone becomes an owner of a problem that the user is facing from ideation, creation, and evaluation. So the entire scope of it. But what makes Bunq Bunqs apart from the fact that you have a lot of responsibility for this ownership is that we will never utter the sentence. This is not your job to do, right? If you spot a problem, go fix it great. For, show us what you got.

Saksham Sharda: So as Chief of Staff in this fast-growing tech company, how do you balance being unconventional with maintaining a can-do attitude?

Bianca Zwart: I think those two are not mutually exclusive. That’s all, that’s all I said. It was to the point. 

Saksham Sharda: So what have been some unconventional approaches you’ve taken that have paid off for bunq?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah, I have a great example. It hasn’t only paid off for Bunq, it has paid off for everyone. That’s banking for the safety of the banking sector as a whole. So as a bank, we obviously are looking at the use of accounts for safety, and anti-money laundering. We’re having a close look to make sure that everything is as safe as possible. The regulator requires us to do that in a certain way. And we thought that this way was quite outdated. So we decided to build a model that actually looks at the behavior of our users and detects whether it’s fraudulent behavior or not. And of course, the human will still look at it and assess it. But it was way more effective than the way in which we had it set up before. So we went to the regulator and we showed them this is what we made. We’d love to implement it everywhere. Unfortunately, the regulator decided that they wanted to do it the outdated way still. So we decided to take it to court. And a couple of years later, the ruling took place and we won, which is great. And not just for us, but for the safety of the banking sector as a whole, because all banks can now use AI in their money and honor procedures.

Saksham Sharda: So let’s talk a bit about Ali’s keynote on bunq’s continuous expansion. What are the key factors in building a user-centric business?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah, so I think there’s a couple of elements to it. I mentioned a couple already, but I’ll recap them. So one is making sure that your commercial success is actually in line with your users. Because if your commercial success is not aligned with your users, you will never be a true user-centered company. It’ll be rather a tagline making sure that you’re obsessed with your users, finding out what it is they want, looking at the data, but also talking to them and truly trying to understand, don’t make any assumptions. And also making sure that it’s implemented in all of your processes. So apart from the template, the business proposal that I just mentioned, if you can’t answer the question of what’s in it for a user, we’re not doing it. We have many more ways of doing this. So. For example, our whole company is mirroring in terms of company structure, which mirrors the user journey. So the steps that the user goes through are the way we set up our teams. So you need to make sure that it’s implemented this, this user obsession is implemented, not just in your head, but also in creating processes and setup.

Saksham Sharda: Are there any particular examples of how bunq has adapted its services based on user needs and preferences? Any story or any interesting story around it?

Bianca Zwart: Yes, sure. I have many. So let me think. I mean, I think one interesting one that speaks to the broader sector is, it’s not necessarily surprising, but it’s an example of how we are truly focused on what’s important for our users. So we have been in a zero interest rate environment for a long time, obviously that started changing a year ago or a bit longer. Don’t pin me down on it, So when the European central banks started to raise interest rates that was the first time in our history that we had to deal with that, right? So we decided, okay, what is it that we need to do with this? What’s within our strategy? What makes sense? And to us it was a no-brainer that we’re gonna pass on that benefit for our users, right? We benefit, you benefit. So we actually have been driving market high rates in the market, which is great obviously for the user, but what is even greater is that traditional banks have been following and they have been rising faster than they otherwise would’ve.

Saksham Sharda: Let’s talk a bit about AI. How has bunq’s use of AI to automate search marketing impacted your overall marketing strategies and outreach efforts?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah, so I’m not an expert on the matter, but what I do know is because we automate, not just with search marketing, but with a lot of things, we automate the manual processes, right? We automate the things that you don’t need expertise for and therefore the people, the human touch, we can actually focus on what is important and adding value. So without having to think about processes and doing all kinds of manual tasks, in that sense, it’s about speeding everything up.

Saksham Sharda: And when it comes to brand identity, how do you maintain and enhance bunq’s brand identity in a competitive financial services market?

Bianca Zwart: Yeah. Playing your own game. So our brand, we say we make life easy for our users. So what that means is that we cut through all the complexities that there are in the banking sector and we make it very simple for our users. So in the same way we need to launch simple products, we focus on simplicity. Is this actually clear and simple to our users? In that way, we also try to communicate with our users. We try to keep everything simple in a sector where we tend to overcomplicate things very much.

Saksham Sharda: So from your perspective, what do you see as the future of marketing and what new strategies or technologies are you excited to explore in the coming years?

Bianca Zwart: The future of marketing? It’s an interesting one because we’ve been talking about AI a lot, right? And I think of course it will help as being far more efficient. But I think with all these technologies coming up, what’s most important in the upcoming years is actually human connection. So I know that may sound high level, but I’m very excited to see how we can implement that in our brand and in our marketing so that we can go at rapid speed, but don’t, don’t lose touch with what makes us us.

Saksham Sharda: Alright. So the last question for you is of a personal kind, What would you be doing in your life, if not for this?

Bianca Zwart: Writing books

Saksham Sharda: In the age of AI?

Bianca Zwart: Not about AI.

Let’s Conclude!

Saksham Sharda: Thanks, everyone for joining us for this month’s episode of Outgrow’s Marketer of the Month. That was Bianca Zwart, who is the Chief of Staff to the CEO at bunq.

Bianca Zwart: Pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Saksham Sharda: Check out the website for more details and we’ll see you once again next month with another marketer of the month.